withoutsanctuary.org

[John R]

I am white. And yes, I agree that the things seen on this website are indeed terrible. But they happened in the long distant past, and did not involve most white people. I want to ask: If white people are always getting the blame for everything wrong that white peole did, then, why do we get no credit for all the good that we did? Slavery in America was ended by white people. Did the black Africans fight a civil war to free their slaves? And what about all the efforts white Americans did to remedy past injustices to black people? We really bent over backwords for you people and never any thanks for it. And what about the fact that modern civilization itself is largely the creation of the white race? The world would still be living in the Stone Age if it wasn't for all the technology that white people made possible. And finally, slavery was not invented by white people. But the movement to end slavery was. Now I don't expect black people to bow down to me because I am white. But a little show of appreciation every now and then would be appreciated.

[maggiore]

Thank you John, your thoughts on this subject are textbook oblivious.

[i]Now I don't expect black people to bow down to me because I am white. But a little show of appreciation every now and then would be appreciated.[/i]

So what exactly is YOUR direct involvement in making life better for black people, that demands their thanking YOU? Tell us what you did that they aren’t appreciating enough.

And what exactly do you want them to do? Hold a press conference? Lobby for national Thank You White People day? Let you go first at the stop sign? Take the lower paying jobs and live in the worst neighborhoods? Invent jazz? Invent rock-and-roll and then let Buddy Holly and Elvis take most of the credit? Letting black people vote, get a job, go to school, and oh, maybe refraining from lynching them, doesn’t mean you’re “bending over backwards.” Nice try though.

[i]And what about all the efforts white Americans did to remedy past injustices to black people?[/i]

Here’s some helpful insight John. When you subjugate a group of people in the most brutal ways imaginable for centuries, and then make and “effort” at “reparations” for it, then at best – AT BEST – things are now even steven. It doesn’t mean that now they OWE YOU. Should your wife APPRECIATE YOU MORE once you stop beating her for a change?

But after all, “slavery was ended by white people.”

I mean. Wow. That’s got to be the stupidest thing I’ve ever read on the internets. We ended slavery…hey! there ought to be a commemorative plaque or something!! (Well, there's the Lincoln Memorial of course...) I mean, the least black people could’ve done was end their own damn slavery, instead of relying on us white folk – the “creators of modern civilization” – to do it for them! While we’re at it, let’s ask the Native Americans to thank us for setting aside Indian reservations! Yo John: it don’t count as a good deed anymore if you’re bitching and whining about it. Especially when you’re just inadequately repairing a wrong. Not only that, you totally missed the point: ALL OF THESE LYNCHINGS HAPPENED *AFTER* SLAVERY WAS ENDED – many of them, not “in the long distant past” but in your and your parents’ lifetimes.

And no, you don’t get to take all the credit for “modern civilization” when much of the labor necessary to “build modern civilization” was, yes, SLAVE LABOR (not to mention indentured servitude, not to mention the military submission and genocide of various colored peoples to give more land to white people).

Jesus what a moron. Yet another product of our failed public school system…

[acm1982]

True, we can't blame white people today. That's why my saying goes:

"Blame their ascendents, not their descendents."

[maggiore]

[quote="acm1982"]True, we can't blame white people today. That's why my saying goes:

"Blame their ascendents, not their descendents."[/quote]

He doesn't seem worried about getting the blame, rather not getting enough praise for his "efforts."

[acm1982]

you're right.

[Robertk]

Maggiore,
That was a wonderful response. When I read John's posting, I thought this must be a joke. No one could be that ignorant. I guess it's another example of the axiom:" There is no limit to ignorance."
Let us not forget other events:
Fourteen year old Emmett Till murdered for whistling at a white woman in 1955, but the most recent horror that comes to mind is James Byrd being dragged to death in Texas in 1999. So life is hardly a bed of roses for blacks in the U.S., especially in the South.

[Tenzin]

I don't believe its the goal of the site's to "blame" people but rather to educate us about our history so the ignorance of these horrible facts disapears. i know its history and what ever happened, happened in the past but we as people need to realize the mistakes of the past and learn and evolve from it rather than making it controversial.-tenzin

[leiftorjesen5]

Perhaps an unrelated point, but still relevant. There are no "white" people in this world, nor "black" either. These are but cultural inventions of the Americas (with US in the lead).

In the rest of the world, deadly or homicidal prejudice against other human beings is based on religion or caste or social class. To some extent, however, the Americas' myth about race is now recognized in some other parts of the world as well. Yet only a very few countries derivative on the English, have had such similar, almost universal racial beliefs - the old South Africa is one.

Yet even in England today ancient hatred of the Irish [by the North Irish who are English!] remains a far stronger cultural formation in the invention of American "race" and Ronald Takaki of UC Berkeley has an excellent book, Different Mirrors, where he argues that English perceptions of the Irish as a grouping with some putatively "distinct" human trait common to ALL the Irish is probably the UR-form of American race.

Another irony: strongest believers in American Race today are not even their white "racists," but our own black Americans who are themselves the ancient victims of American "race".

Stanford University and other research facilities have been collecting blood samples around the globe and have now created a genetic world map whose broad outlines are no longer in (scientific) doubt. There is just a single woman, somewhere in the western part of Africa around 70,000 years ago, who is our genetic mother, the universal ancestor of all human beings alive on the planet today from Mongolia to Norway, from Argentina to Cape Town and all the very many places in between.

We do not differ by genetics (except for the one important factors of disease resistance). We do differ overwhelmingly by culture which is mythic to the core - from race to religion and all the politics in between.

Leif Torjesen

[aquaone]

interesting history and the preservation of the pics tells so much more than words can about a time and about a people now faded away. very shocking to see how appallingly they treated their fellow citizens. i can only make a few conclusions about this story of lynchings in america covered in the time frame of these photos. one is the observation that almost all victims were young males. except for one pic of a woman hung from a bridge. more shocking was that even male children were lynched. the 14yo boy hung with his mother. the 17yo boy burned alive. another conclusion is the knowledge that democracy and law was in place in this era. but clearly law enforcement was not. all these lynchings were clearly murder. were the authorities at the time corrupted by terrorist organisations like the KKK? if this was the case then the terrorists seemed to have been ruling during this era. i read that race is a common topic on the forum here, but the pics tell that all people were victims of lynchings, white, african, italian migrants, while race was clearly an issue it seems to have been secondary to the interests of those who ruled through terror during this era.

[tariq]

[quote="John R"]I am white. And yes, I agree that the things seen on this website are indeed terrible. But they happened in the long distant past, and did not involve most white people. I want to ask: If white people are always getting the blame for everything wrong that white peole did, then, why do we get no credit for all the good that we did? Slavery in America was ended by white people. Did the black Africans fight a civil war to free their slaves? And what about all the efforts white Americans did to remedy past injustices to black people? We really bent over backwords for you people and never any thanks for it. And what about the fact that modern civilization itself is largely the creation of the white race? The world would still be living in the Stone Age if it wasn't for all the technology that white people made possible. And finally, slavery was not invented by white people. But the movement to end slavery was. Now I don't expect black people to bow down to me because I am white. But a little show of appreciation every now and then would be appreciated.[/quote]


shut up buffoon....you know who brought europe out of the so called dark ages? building hospitals, teaching you how to nativagate so you can pillage the world, introducing the firestick which you turned into guns, teaching you to take baths when taking baths was a sin in europe and the list goes on, that you all have deleted from history?

they looked something like this http://www.hasbrouckfamily.org/images/Hasbrouck-lg.gif
________
[URL=http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_CBR1000RR]Honda Cbr1000Rr[/URL]

[Bayano]

John exhibits the appalling lack of cognition that allowed people to lynch humans based on the color of their skin. His ignorance goes even further, he wants recognition because "white people ended slavery." He asserts that "white people built this civilization," giving no recognition to the fact that without slave labor, United States would have been just a forgotten outpost. The main reason for the USA's economic world dominance was the government's policy of ensalving certain of its citizens. Other sane governments, that did not make slavery government policy, had the same technology the USA had, but did not develop to the economic stature of the USA.

It is sad, but evident, that even today peole like John just don't get it.

[Bayano]

John exhibits the appalling lack of cognition that allowed people to lynch humans based on the color of their skin. His ignorance goes even further, he wants recognition because "white people ended slavery." He asserts that "white people built this civilization," giving no recognition to the fact that without slave labor, United States would have been just a forgotten outpost. The main reason for the USA's economic world dominance was the government's policy of ensalving certain of its citizens. Other sane governments, that did not make slavery government policy, had the same technology the USA had, but did not develop to the economic stature of the USA.

It is sad, but evident, that even today peole like John just don't get it.

[mitaj01]

Yes. And I am brown for your information.
As a general rule -Descendants are responsible for the legacy left behind by elders. Children must pay for the sins of their parents. Even otherwise, there has been no closure to this shameful period of history and the responsibility lies with whites.

Whites have not remonstrated even minimally for such animalistic behavior because I have never heard of any apology coming from whites. Infact there is resistance to it. I see arrogance that the blacks brought to US are better off than their African cousins. The only person who demonstrated remorse was President Clinton who took the courage to do it against popular opinion and he followed up bya visit to Africa. No wonder he is popular with blacks. Even the previous Pope expressed apology for mistreatment of Jews but he never said a word about American or African blacks. I lost all respect for him that day. I was left wondering what on earth he is doing by this selective apology. That day the Pope did a great disservice to the Christian religion. The disservice was also done when the priests and popes of the day did not raise their voice against the slavery and did not educate the people about the sins they were committing.

In my mind (although me and my ancestors did not suffer like the blacks), I developed a distrust of whites as a result of these images. Now I am not sure if they are really nice or acting nice. I remember that the offenders in James Bryd case were not awarded death penalty. The 1st thoughts in my mind were that they should have gone to the electric chair.

I imagine that if I was a young black today and I was burdened with this history of my ancestors and the thoughts about how they were lynched, I would be automatically launched on a "jihad" to avenge or more appropriately "get justice" by fighting it out. If I were a sensible "white", I would realize that by apologizing I am at least providing a soothing balm to the present black generation and a closure of sorts.

I think that the whites of today are doing a great disservice to themselves. By not apologizing to the blacks for historical mistreatment, the society as a whole will not earn their 100% loyalty and the young blacks will "probably" not participate in a full manner. we will continue to see OJ Simpson like divisive behavior. I am afraid that future generations will pay the price (with interest) for lack of timely closure.

Present generation must pay for the past. Their is no automatic waiver. I remember a Berkley univ. white student complaining why should she be held responsible for past generations excesses in response to a debate on affirmative program. I say the present generation is collectively responsible for the past generation.

[reswill]

john r ,"NEWSFLASH"what technology are you speaking of?any of it was
created by my people"BLACK" the light-bulb invusion though eddisons
credited gas-mask,traffic-light,micro-computers,internet I can go on!.
Dude All your race has done IS TAKE & KILL for what it wants.yes,we've
had sell-outs during Slavery probally ALWAYS will.But your race is Despised GLOBALLY and we suffer daily for the Transgressions of 400+
centuries.I have FORGIVEN But WE CAN NEVER FORGET.

[aoife mcg]

'We really bent over backwords for you people and never received any thanks for it. '

I think that says it all. Unbelievable how such ignorance and arrogance prevails. 'You people' - that just makes me sick to the core.